Think about whether a male intern would be treated the same way, and whether the dress code judgment is actually fairly implemented overall for women. People go to the beach in bikinis. In fact, you might also suggest for any future jobs that she look and mimic the casualness of dress by other coworkers.
Z Cavaricci What?
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Parents say kindergarteners are allowed only 12 to 15 minutes to eat lunch at school — and say their hungry children are suffering from stomachaches and weight loss as a result. In , after losing weight due to severe health issues, she decided to embrace a healthier lifestyle for the sake of her future. This is her weight-loss story. In mainstream Western culture, showing skin like shoulders, collar bones, knees, etc is okay but clothing has to be reasonably loose over the torso and butt.
Just that she may have good reasons to think leggings are okay and may be surprised to hear otherwise. That seems like a pretty big assumption. I think when you hire interns you agree to teach them some of the basics.
I work on a campus and athletic leggings with tank tops are everyday wear. On one side of me was a girl in a tailored jacket, and on the other side was a girl in a hoodie and running shorts. Seriously, we get that you have some major personal issue with what others choose wear, but I hope you realize that your vehemence in this regard comes across as rather bizarre and out of step.
It surprises me that folks think leggings are business appropriate. It has nothing to do with policing wear and everything to do with business norms. Sweatpants, yoga pants, leather pants…none of them are business appropriate but they are pants, not underwear, and so are the type of leggings commonly worn without anything else covering the butt.
No one has actually made the argument that they are business appropriate. Not in an office, not at school, not on the street, not at the gym, not at home if people will see you. Anonhippopotamus was not just talking about leggings as pants in the office.
Most every commenter here from what I have read agree that leggings as pants are not office-appropriate, but the above quote certainly is policing what women can wear. And yes, I do wear leggings to fitness classes sometimes.
Work environment can be an issue, too. Of course, these types of environments usually make that distinction clear via other methods, like prohibiting jewelry and loose hair as well. I just highlight how customers liked me, and the references from those jobs say the same. OP, think about what the patients complimented you on. Bonus points if you had several people give you the same compliment.
Be sure to use those compliments. Part of what you do in a job interview is make yourself sound good. Not lying but being enthusiastic and positive about what you do.
I do this too. How about how someone worse than mediocre would do it? Never had a complaint lodged by a patient, perfect safety record regarding X and Y, picked up the job during the standard training and never required remedial work? Perfect safety record is good. I think people not in social services or direct care do not get how often there is no difference.
Management shoots down any suggestions to innovate and improve and most of the time other providers are involved and can get in the way. I wish I had something helpful to add but some of the advice for a typical office job is just not applicable.
I always struggle with how to incorporate this. This is where I am. I feel like there has to be more to this, because of course you would be fired for theft…. Friend of mine discovered this when her toddler spilled the contents of her handbag all over the place while she was shopping at a large discount store.
Friend had to get store security involved to get the wallet back. I wish I was was making this up. So, yeah, I can believe that someone would spot an expensive tech item in a stairway and figure they could keep it. Not many people, but a few. I mean, I know some adults have that mentality, but to be so brazen about it to the person they were taking it from? She knew where it was — on the floor where it had been dropped. They know what is going on here. They were 6 and 4 at the time.
His mom set him straight pretty quickly, but apparently some people never learn that lesson. That logic only works if it is something like a bag of chips. The man my grandmother married was like that. He ransacked our basement while she was over helping my mom after she had my sister. He always had a bad excuse ready as to why he felt he could do that too. And sure, he does it for non-food stuff, too — especially things like money. On the other hand, if he thinks he can get away with it or thinks you will be a good target for his excuses, watch your stuff.
A year or two later, I asked for it back. I never in a thousand years expected her to say no. I fully thought she would dig it out from where ever in a short bit. The tool itself is probably dollars. In the end, I decided that it was good that it happened with just that tool because I knew where things were at. When we were in our 20s, my sister came to live in my apartment for a few months. She took one of my favorite bras.
I flat-out told her I wanted it back. She never asked if she could have it. She just kept it. You had a nice pen out?
Like not something generic and easily replaceable like a pen or a candy bar? Not that those are okay to just take, especially if you see their owner nearby, but wow. But actually announcing it to the owner of the item, to their face? Except I as the employer once lost a Wrongful Termination suit when we fired an employee for stealing equipment from the warehouse.
But because we had no specific policy at that time that company property could not be borrowed by employees, we lost. Yet, we lost, and had to pay him a settlement. Seriously—at best this was conversion, at worst, threat. It sounds like you were stuck with a really bad attorney: It was hard for me to understand from the description.
Mention any awards or positive performance evaluations. If you received any thank-yous — especially in writing — that is something to mention.
Was there ever a crisis you handled correctly? As Alison said, accomplishments are the things that you do that make you different from the average employee doing the same job.
The thing is, when I think of accomplishments, I think of examples I could use to back up a request for a raise. Accomplishments are things that go above and beyond, and not everyone has that opportunity in his or her job.
So what are the reasons a hiring manager should hire you over someone else? My very first summer job was a cashier at a food hut at an amusement park no not THAT one, a different one. I say with full modesty that I was the best cashier for the afternoon shift in our hut.
And I knew by reputation the best cashier for the morning shift. One day I arrived to find her in a poor mood because instead of giving her a break in the middle of the shift, she had worked all the way through her shift until I arrived to break her.
It was my turn to be annoyed soon after as our manager told me to take a break as soon as she returned, meaning I was also in for a long shift. But this meant when our till was selected for a random audit just before closing time , no one had touched it except for us two. This was the best result he had seen in two years of daily auditing. If not, wear different pants.
Leggings with a tunic top would be perfectly office-appropriate where I work—just the tunic, not so much. Most offices have rules about tight clothing and about skirt lengths. I wonder if it depends on the dress code. I look sharp as hell and totally appropriate for my office. Leggings are halfway between pants and tights.
Generally, you can wear something shorter than you would wear with tights, but it has to be longer than what you can wear with pants. Mid-thigh is fine in many business casual offices. The dress code is business casual, with jeans allowed on Fridays. I was also given the opportunity to ask questions and get clarification on other issues at that time.
Perhaps moving forward, when you bring in new interns or employees, you could implement a similar procedure. That way, everything is clear from the beginning, as it appears norms from one office to another can be drastically different. No feedback is a type of feedback in itself. While it might be awkward, if I were the intern, I would want you to mention that most of the outfits were not OK. If you want to soften it, maybe say you personally were OK with it, just a heads up for future work in that field.
It can be so destructive to not give feedback when there is a clear problem. I sometimes wear yoga pants on casual Friday when my jeans are dirty, I assume it is fine because no one says anything. At the same time, with something like clothing issues it does not help to give that feedback weeks or months after the fact when the person getting the feedback might not even remember what outfit it was or which bit was the problem bit.
I love the variety of questions. This type of comment amazes me. What purpose could it possibly serve? You have the option not to read. Most of us here read and enjoy, whatever the topic. If you find a topic too petty for you, then… read a blog with a level of seriousness that you find appropriate. But to say the problems are petty? That is really unkind. Then go back to saving orphans or whatever it is you do.
Sounds like one of the meaning s of life to me! While a bit harsh, amy is correct. But Alison has asked us specifically not to make comments like amy did, because it may discourage people from writing in in the future. Yeah, I am the first person to criticize a pileon, but that comment was not making any type of argument, or even bringing up a specific problem with one of the letters. It was just being generally mean, not adding to the discussion in any way. I think all kinds of rude and inappropriate things without them coming out of my mouth or keyboard.
I should think that would be obvious? We are free to skip the questions that do not interest us. And that would allow people who are bothered by the question, to get relief from that bother. But this is what goes on here. Some times questions are or seem obvious and we talk about things that are obvious to others. Alison has asked us to be respectful others. Yes, it is true, we can say things like this here AND it is also true that Alison could decide to quit writing her blog.
The flaw in that logic is that she does not have to keep writing if she does not want to. If you find a question to be trivial and tedious then skip it. Not everyone grew up like you, nor did they have the same life experiences, so NO, not everyone knows the answer to that particular question. I have said it before, Alison, and I do mean it.
I think you have done more here to help people find and KEEP their jobs than our government has done. Leggings can never be worn as pants, EVER. Wearing leggings as pants is the same as not wearing pants! There are expectations for dress in certain settings, and those expectations include having some body parts covered up. They are taking a pretty extreme view that seems to be a negative overreaction to the idea of the female body. My wife has been pretty clear that she sees leggings as the modern equivalent of long underwear.
The majority of work out pants I ever see on anyone are leggings. Before leggings, it was a leotard and tights, e. Jane Fonda, in the gym. Leggings are a step up in modesty in that regard. Everything is not body shaming. It depends on the material, of course. In an office setting whether or not they are appropriate is one discussion.
Like when I go to Costco? Yup, I wear them all the time. The fact that self righteous modesty police might be judging me and looking at my butt is of zero concern to me. I think they have been worthwhile, which is why I proudly and comfortably wear leggings on the regular. Not even to the gym? In some activities, stretchy, tight clothes can be appropriate and afford the greatest range of motion.
This is like objecting to people wearing swimsuits in the pool. Leggings are the only acceptable clothing for aerial acrobatics. Everyone wears them, including the guys.
Thick leggings even give some protection from bruises. I often wear two pairs. Performance costumes may vary, but for training, leggings. So me and my leggings are going to keep right on going to the gym, thanks. My options for working out comfortably without fabric getting in the way are leggings or short athletic shorts.
Not at the gym and not at home? That is … not a common stance. I remember the same debates and the item of discussion was sweatpants. Another biggie I remember was blue jeans. I was not allowed to have blue jeans when I was growing up. I could have other colors but not blue. Oh yeah and not black. Once I left home, the first thing I did was buy blue jeans. My parents never wore jeans, even for yard work.
In all other situations, people are going to wear what they want, not much different than me in my own jeans story. I think this comment is pretty off-base, honestly. Leggings make sense when you just want to wear them and you feel good wearing them.
I suggest you look away from the contours of my ass if you dislike it. I cannot imagine why anyone would care whether I am wearing leggings, a muu-muu, a sequined string bikini or a full Chewbacca costume while at home. Quit your body shaming, people have no responsibility toward you to look good. What a ridiculous claim. I think people can wear whatever they want at home, regardless of whether or not people can see them.
If they get uncomfortable, they can leave. Give the people what they want! I used to go to a club night where one woman wore a bra top made of crystals and another woman black tape over their nipples. I think I have to age another 15 years to really pull that off though. Meanwhile, the entire conversation thread here has made me want to go buy leggings and wear them to the grocery store, for serious.
Man I am so sick of snooty women who judge younger women for what they wear in public. To be clear, I enjoy dressing up. I wear dresses to work, sometimes I wear cute outfits to run errands, and I usually dress nicely when hanging out with friends. I might even make eye contact with a neighbor! Not adhering to your personal concept of modesty does not make something inappropriate, particularly at the gym where range of movement matters, and in fitness classes where baggy clothes can prevent the instructor from seeing whether your body mechanics are correct.
People jog in sports bras and short shorts. People go to the beach in bikinis. People mow their front lawns without shirts on localities vary on whether this is legal for women, but men do it all the time. Just like, if your personal religious beliefs meant that cleavage was never, ever okay, or women had to wear ankle-length skirts, you would survive coexisting in public with people with different standards of modesty than you have.
Not at the gym? For me running in loose pants is horrible, I get nasty chafing. As we say where I was born and raised, bless your sweet heart. I wear them to fly in. And what will be gained by this practice? I could buy into this if it would cause all our bank accounts to triple in size, or if it cause world peace to take over.
I see nothing to be gained and I see a huge waste of resources in policing this one. It all boils down to materiality when mistakes are missed and your boss can give you guidance on how to determine what is material and should be changed and what is not. Even if you KNOW something should be fixed, you must consult your boss. Sometimes a big mistake is not worth fixing.
Sometimes it is even cheaper to just cover any penalties they get if caught before fixed the next year. When fixing it the next year it is a simple entry that gets absorbed into that years chargeable time. Admitting that you may have miscalculated a deduction can turn into them scrutinizing everything. Just telling them it was a mistake instead of having your boss gloss up the explanation can cause you to lose a client and have your name dragged through the dirt.
I feel like I could be you. My bosses door is my enemy because I constantly have to close it so he can explain how I messed my earlier files up. But sometimes he even misses my mistakes and it is tempting to not tell him and just hide it next year — but then it looks very bad on you.
Public accounting is very, very difficult the first two years…Keep up with it…. I was coming here to say basically this. Bringing to your boss is the right move- she can help navigate the process. Most jobs I have had there is wiggle room for error. Except for the new person who does not know the ropes yet. Bring your examples to your boss.
One thing I have done is make every effort not to ask the same question twice, because I know I will be asking plenty of questions. After a bit the questions taper off because you know what to do when you see problem X or Y. The recurring problems you will learn the answers to the quickest. The one-offs will take longer, of course. A few years ago, I took a job in a new-to-me arena. I rounded up my questions in batches. Usually it took about 20 minutes to get through a batch.
I was very fortunate in that my boss expected me to have questions and would grow concerned if I went more than a few hours without questions. Later, she did note that I never asked the same question twice. So the boss can notice the effort on your part to get through the learning curve.
She knew that the trouble was simply a misunderstanding, I was way too concerned about correct handling to have done what I was accused of. Also what are people supposed to wear to the gym other then work-out clothes, most of which, for women these days do include leggings, usually made out of some quick-drying or water wicking material.
When I am at the gym, I am there to work out, I am not there because I care if people see how I look in exercise clothes. I would hope that other people are there to work out as well, are not going there to judge others on their bodies, their workout outfits, how those bodies look in the workout outfits, etc.
I hate hate hate leggings as pants on my body. I wear loose fit capris. At the moment they are hard to find. Duluth sells a pair that sells out as soon as they list them.
Is this reminding anyone else of the pantyhose debate? Pantyhose debate light version, but still. I understand creating dress codes for work, but as we can all see, many people feel free to comment on how women dress in public on their own time as well. I think leggings look terrible as pants. I think a lot of people dress badly. It really is pretty gross, and I think you put into words pretty well what is making me uncomfortable with this whole thing.
I tend to think that some of the judgement and comment on how women dress tends to bleed over into dress-codes, which makes dress-codes something that has to be done carefully to make sure that they actually have the desired result, and do not end up being just another bit of institutional misogyny. I was in HS in the 80s, and I remember the first round of leggings in fashion.
Unless you had no fashion sense. At least in my neck of the woods. That is where the institutionalized sexism comes in. I think this makes sense. But women have a much greater spectrum of clothing styles available. This is a good point. Every few years, women have some new clothing option that must be vetted and judged and found work-worthy or not i.
Our conversation went something like this:. Dressed up, in dressy clothes. Like…white tie, black tie, cocktail attire, formal wear, business casual? Should I choose a conservative skirt length? Are bright colors or unusual fabrics OK? Just show me the pictures on their website. I literally screamed in panic. Some people feel strongly about black! Other people feel strongly about covering up! Google is your friend. Google saved my bacon when I was going to Friday prayers at my local mosque for my Arabic class: I could get a sense for the range of appropriate dress, and watched some YouTube tutorials on how to wrap a headscarf.
An inch below the knees is fine even in St. I think the vatican just makes you cover your knees and your shoulders. Although my only black dresses are pretty short, so I usually wear black work pants and a dark shirt to funerals. It was weird, but everyone thanked me. My SO once picked me up for a birthday party for one of his family members in a pair of giant red swishy athletic pants and a hockey t-shirt and hat.
I was in a cute dress with straightened hair — we looked like the Odd Couple. We went back to his place for him to change, but I was rolling my eyes all night. And the wedding was freaking black tie. I looked like an idiot in a sea of fancy floor-length gowns. I was like, blouse and nice slacks okay? Or do I need to wear a skirt? Cocktail dress, tea-length, gown? Jewelry—can I wear my pretty colorful necklace or should I keep it minimal? Bright scarf or would that be too much?
Can I keep my hair down or is an updo going to be more expected? And on and on. He was so boggled. In the 60s skirts got really short and before that women had always worn stockings with garters.
We cheered when pantyhose became cheap and easily available. My late grandmother was appalled that I would go bare-legged to work, but I pointed out that DC is built on a swamp, and spending forty minutes on public transport in the summer with hose would be the death of me. Like, when I was a kid there was a whole section of those shiny eggs of name-brand pantyhose.
And they were so ubiquitous that I actually had a book of crafts to make out of the left over eggs. I get a shiver of discomfort down my spine remembering the feeling of pantyhose brushing against pantyhose. I liked it so much better than actual nylons, especially in the summer!
When bronzer became widely available, my grandmother started using that instead of those nylon knee highs all elderly women used to wear.
Thank you for including this one. As you grow and change in this role and look for future goals to meet, filling the void you lamented lack of documentation would be a great project.
As a note, my sweater was not too low cut but that was over 10 years ago. So tell her something. She was a pain in other ways to everyone except the most senior partners throughout my tenure there, but I still get mad when I think about her phrasing. I still remember people chattering about a busty woman wearing a turtleneck. I was also transitioning from wearing dresses all the time, like I did in my old job where I could park at the door and walk two feet inside in inclement weather, to a job where I have to park two blocks away in a garage, and dresses in anything but nice weather became a hassle.
I now have three pairs of nice tailored jeans, which hobbled me financially for about a month and a half. But the person who finally told me, AFTER I started wearing my jeans, that I looked nice but like I was going clubbing instead of to work, was my boyfriend. I can only imagine what my office mates thought! As a fellow short person, I feel you on the pants thing! I wear skirts and dresses, and wear tights under them, and just suck it up being cold outside.
Have you ladies ever considered learning how to hem your own pants? Or are you also getting the width of your pants tailored? I could do it myself, but I no longer want to bother. I mentioned this below, but I like the convenience of in-store tailoring, so I buy jeans at Buckle. Their jeans are pricey but high-quality, and they hem for free.
Hemming jeans is actually much trickier than hemming dress pants because you want to keep the decorative stitching at the bottom of the hem. Jeans require a double turned hem that can be topstitched. Nice trousers require hem tape and a blind-stitched hem.
And yes, it has occurred to me that knowing how to hem my own would be helpful. Now if I had the money to spend on a sewing machine, old pants to practice on, and some spare time to get it right, I may actually do that.
Taking in a dress requires more changes to the construction of the garment. Plain hemming is usually cheaper. And can be done in a pinch with a stapler not recommended, but useful to know in an emergency. My legs are short enough that, if the hem is too long, the entire structure of the pants leg needs to be changed. When I do find something that works, I stock up!
Tailoring is kind of a pain, but for me it is so necessary! There are fleece lined leggings for the cold months, if you like that sort of thing. I have a pair and practically live in them. I may have to look into buying pants there too, but I am so lazy about outsourcing the hemming! And I love wearing athletic pants to dance class!
If I had worn something inappropriate to my internship, I would have wanted to know. Had I been wrong and gotten in trouble wearing something bad to my next job, I would have felt like my internship should have warned me. I stupidly left my bag in the dining hall and by the time I went back for it, someone had turned in the bag, but had taken the cell phone out first. That person was a thief. I loved that phone, and having to get a new one really sucked.
And it would suck even more today, with phones being so much more expensive. I was just about to post this! We used to mercilessly tease a friend who tried to get away with wearing leggings as pants i.
My aunt got fired for stealing. She had taken a substantial amount from the company petty cash fund. She repaid it all back. Not sure if I agree here. If you leave it there, the owner might find it, or someone else might take it. I have an example that falls in between the two — when I worked retail, we got a call from the police that a stolen phone had been tracked via GPS to inside our store.
Ah, I see what you mean. I once saw one of my professors cycling across campus in tighty shorts and it was low-key traumatizing. When I was a student, we had professors who would go swim together. They were in their 60s and 70s. The lecture time coincided with their swim time.
Tight dress pants seem to be in fashion for younger men. It is clearly a cut designed to display and not hide. It is pretty gross to see all these old men showing off their bulges. Younger men actually seem somewhat less likely to dress like this.
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